The best Bible publishers I recommend are Church Bible Publishers, Cambridge, and Schuyler.
These are the first 5 instances of the word "follow" used in John to refer to following Jesus.
John1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
John1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
John1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
John1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
John6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.
All 5 are about physically following him, which is not how John 10 uses the word "follow". This is to leave no stone unturned before getting to the verses that change how John 10 is read.
John1:37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
John1:38 Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?
John1:40 One of the two which heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.
John1:43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.
John6:2 And a great multitude followed him, because they saw his miracles which he did on them that were diseased.
All 5 are about physically following him, which is not how John 10 uses the word "follow". This is to leave no stone unturned before getting to the verses that change how John 10 is read.
There is one other instance of the word "follow" before John 10, and it is this one...
John8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
This is a discipleship passage which is meant to be taken figuratively. Meaning, those after Christ follow him only in Spirit, not in a physical ministry with Jesus. This can be better understood having read John 9, where it shows that Jesus is the light of the world AS LONG as he is in the world.
John9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
John9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
And we can point to John 13 for this...
John13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
So we can conclude that all the applicable uses of the word "follow" before John 10 are about physically walking with Christ on earth, only exception is the discipleship passage of John 8:12.
John8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
This is a discipleship passage which is meant to be taken figuratively. Meaning, those after Christ follow him only in Spirit, not in a physical ministry with Jesus. This can be better understood having read John 9, where it shows that Jesus is the light of the world AS LONG as he is in the world.
John9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
John9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
And we can point to John 13 for this...
John13:1 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.
So we can conclude that all the applicable uses of the word "follow" before John 10 are about physically walking with Christ on earth, only exception is the discipleship passage of John 8:12.
Christian Spreadsheet Camp
There is one other instance of the word "follow" before John 10, and it is this one... John8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. This…
Please open Telegram to view this post
VIEW IN TELEGRAM
After John 10...
John12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
This is another discipleship verse. But the next ones are where it gets interesting...
John13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
Here we see that "following" Jesus in a sense isn't even possible yet. We understand that discipleship now and today can be done with no problem, so this rules out the use of the term "follow" in this passage to mean discipleship, unlike John 12:26 and John 8:12.
What does this mean? Well, it means that there will be a time in our future in which we are to "follow" Jesus in a different sense than we are able to right now. And what is that you may ask?
John5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Notice how Jesus directly confirms that there are two senses in which "hearing" is used, one in the future ("the hour is coming") and one now ("and now is"). Reading on...
John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
When it comes to "following" Jesus in the future, something Jesus said could not be done yet, the people in John 5:29 who "come forth" unto the resurrection of life are those who finally "follow" Jesus. Note that the ones who "hear his voice" are those who are saved, NOT those who are damned, as supported by John 5:25.
What have we seen so far? "Following" or "hearing" Jesus has multiple meaning depending on the context. It could mean discipleship (John 8:12, John 12:26) or it could mean hearing his voice at the rapture (John 13:36). What this means is that John 10 must be examined without the fractured lens of conditional salvation.
John12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.
This is another discipleship verse. But the next ones are where it gets interesting...
John13:36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
John13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life for thy sake.
Here we see that "following" Jesus in a sense isn't even possible yet. We understand that discipleship now and today can be done with no problem, so this rules out the use of the term "follow" in this passage to mean discipleship, unlike John 12:26 and John 8:12.
What does this mean? Well, it means that there will be a time in our future in which we are to "follow" Jesus in a different sense than we are able to right now. And what is that you may ask?
John5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Notice how Jesus directly confirms that there are two senses in which "hearing" is used, one in the future ("the hour is coming") and one now ("and now is"). Reading on...
John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
When it comes to "following" Jesus in the future, something Jesus said could not be done yet, the people in John 5:29 who "come forth" unto the resurrection of life are those who finally "follow" Jesus. Note that the ones who "hear his voice" are those who are saved, NOT those who are damned, as supported by John 5:25.
What have we seen so far? "Following" or "hearing" Jesus has multiple meaning depending on the context. It could mean discipleship (John 8:12, John 12:26) or it could mean hearing his voice at the rapture (John 13:36). What this means is that John 10 must be examined without the fractured lens of conditional salvation.
Here are the rest of the instances, all of them physical.
John18:15 And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest.
John21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
John21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
John21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
John18:15 And Simon Peter followed Jesus, and so did another disciple: that disciple was known unto the high priest, and went in with Jesus into the palace of the high priest.
John21:19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.
John21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
John21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
John10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
John10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
These sheep are already in the fold, and they are being led OUT, NOT IN. This is important to understand before reading further...
John10:6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
John10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
John10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
John10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
It says if any man enter IN, he shall be saved, not out. Notice also that it says the sheep in the fold go in and out, indicating that it is the FIRST TIME a sheep enters in that he is saved. So "in and out" we can understand to refer to one's quality of life. And what does the next verse say?
John10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Is there a greater quantity than infinity? No. So if we have ETERNAL life, how is it possible to have it more abundantly? The answer to this issue is in understanding that "life" can also refer to quality of life, not how much or how long something is alive.
John10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
John10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
John10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
John10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And again we have another segment which is still on the sheep who are already in the fold. After this we have something interesting...
John10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
John10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
These sheep are already in the fold, and they are being led OUT, NOT IN. This is important to understand before reading further...
John10:6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
John10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
John10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
John10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
It says if any man enter IN, he shall be saved, not out. Notice also that it says the sheep in the fold go in and out, indicating that it is the FIRST TIME a sheep enters in that he is saved. So "in and out" we can understand to refer to one's quality of life. And what does the next verse say?
John10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Is there a greater quantity than infinity? No. So if we have ETERNAL life, how is it possible to have it more abundantly? The answer to this issue is in understanding that "life" can also refer to quality of life, not how much or how long something is alive.
John10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
John10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
John10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
John10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And again we have another segment which is still on the sheep who are already in the fold. After this we have something interesting...
John10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Outside of the fold (10:9 - ENTERING the fold = salvation) he has sheep, such that are ALREADY HIS before they enter the fold! This is final salvation, not the initial promise. The fact that a sheep can be his before the sheep enters implies that entering the fold is the resurrection, not the moment of belief. Remember back in John 5?
John5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
What "is coming"?
John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Back on John 10, WHEN exactly is Jesus saying that the sheep shall hear his voice? Is it now, or is it in the resurrection?
John10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Compare John 5 with Daniel 12...
John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Dan12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
So do we have everlasting life right now, or do we get it later? I believe the answer is both (John5:25-"is coming, and now is"), because while we are still physically mortal, we have an unbreakable promise that we will be physically immortal at the last day. Just as "follow" and "hear" can mean different things based on the context, so does everlasting life. Sometimes it is proleptic (John 6:47) sometimes it is a physical reality (Daniel 12:2).
With this in mind, let's continue in John 10...
Outside of the fold (10:9 - ENTERING the fold = salvation) he has sheep, such that are ALREADY HIS before they enter the fold! This is final salvation, not the initial promise. The fact that a sheep can be his before the sheep enters implies that entering the fold is the resurrection, not the moment of belief. Remember back in John 5?
John5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
What "is coming"?
John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Back on John 10, WHEN exactly is Jesus saying that the sheep shall hear his voice? Is it now, or is it in the resurrection?
John10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Compare John 5 with Daniel 12...
John5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Dan12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
So do we have everlasting life right now, or do we get it later? I believe the answer is both (John5:25-"is coming, and now is"), because while we are still physically mortal, we have an unbreakable promise that we will be physically immortal at the last day. Just as "follow" and "hear" can mean different things based on the context, so does everlasting life. Sometimes it is proleptic (John 6:47) sometimes it is a physical reality (Daniel 12:2).
With this in mind, let's continue in John 10...
John10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
John10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
John10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Because we know in Daniel 12 that actual everlasting life is to come, and because in John 10:16 it says "SHALL hear my voice" (future-tense) while John 10:27 says "hear my voice" (present-tense) we can understand that Jesus here in John 10:26-29 is speaking proleptically about eternal life, meaning that verses 26-29 are the "and now is" of John 5:25. What this means is that "hear" in John 10:27 is the moment of belief, not the moment of the resurrection, invalidating the idea that the lost sheep are already in the fold or somehow walking their way there before the last day.
Just as "hear" is present-tense yet is attributed to the one-time event of the resurrection, so is "believe" present-tense yet is attributed to the one-time even of receiving everlasting life (proleptic). Though we are his sheep (John 10:16) and are promised to be taken home (John 5:25), we are NOT yet home nor do we yet hear his voice to go home (John 13:36).
What is the conclusion of the matter? It is that these jews never believed, as shown in verse 25 ("ye believed not"). Only the words of Jesus can show us who has believed and who has never believed.
"The hour is coming..."
Hear/Follow = Resurrection [one-time event]
Eternal life = Physical immortality [everlasting event]
"...and now is"
Hear/Follow = Belief [one-time event]
Eternal life = Unbreakable promise [everlasting event]
John10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
John10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Because we know in Daniel 12 that actual everlasting life is to come, and because in John 10:16 it says "SHALL hear my voice" (future-tense) while John 10:27 says "hear my voice" (present-tense) we can understand that Jesus here in John 10:26-29 is speaking proleptically about eternal life, meaning that verses 26-29 are the "and now is" of John 5:25. What this means is that "hear" in John 10:27 is the moment of belief, not the moment of the resurrection, invalidating the idea that the lost sheep are already in the fold or somehow walking their way there before the last day.
Just as "hear" is present-tense yet is attributed to the one-time event of the resurrection, so is "believe" present-tense yet is attributed to the one-time even of receiving everlasting life (proleptic). Though we are his sheep (John 10:16) and are promised to be taken home (John 5:25), we are NOT yet home nor do we yet hear his voice to go home (John 13:36).
What is the conclusion of the matter? It is that these jews never believed, as shown in verse 25 ("ye believed not"). Only the words of Jesus can show us who has believed and who has never believed.
"The hour is coming..."
Hear/Follow = Resurrection [one-time event]
Eternal life = Physical immortality [everlasting event]
"...and now is"
Hear/Follow = Belief [one-time event]
Eternal life = Unbreakable promise [everlasting event]
Forwarded from 𝓕𝓽. 𝓛𝓪𝓾𝓭𝔂 𝓓𝓪𝓾𝓭𝔂
If you want to pray for me one time to quit smoking that'd be appreciated though. Been wanting to quit for years and having more of a mind to do it lately.
Christian Spreadsheet Camp
If you want to pray for me one time to quit smoking that'd be appreciated though. Been wanting to quit for years and having more of a mind to do it lately.
This is our friend in the telegram groups who believed in Jesus just recently.
Finished John 10:1-29, which I believe is the most advanced and technical breakdown of a passage that I have ever done. This chapter is a big deal when it comes to soteriology; it is a very common area that lordshippers and Baptists flock to in order to argue their perseverance doctrines.
The image is in low quality because I don't want anyone posting it elsewhere until I proofread it and finish the rest of the book.
The image is in low quality because I don't want anyone posting it elsewhere until I proofread it and finish the rest of the book.
So much of John 10 is interwoven with various terms and passages elsewhere in John that I had to do a large amount of re-reading in order to make sure I knew where all of them were and why they were there. If a layman reads John 10 he will come out understanding eternal security, but if an "educated" "scholar" reads John 10 without paying attention to detail he will come out believing either reformed theology or the schizo perseverance Baptist doctrine. "Hear" and "follow" don't always mean the same thing. Gloss over John 5:25 and the use of tenses in words and you'll have a hard time with clear apostacy passages in scripture elsewhere.